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Old 06-20-2015, 11:39 PM   #1
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Default OL Recruiting Question

Is a 3* lineman considered a coveted lineman? I really don't know. It is my understanding that 5* lineman are really rare, but I am not sure. It is obvious I don't know much about the rankings, etc.

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Old 06-21-2015, 01:20 AM   #2
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Default Re: OL Recruiting Question

IMO it's much harder for evaluators to rate OL prospects than it is the skilled positions positions that rely more on athleticism. OL players by tradition are not expected to make instant impacts on teams straight out of high school like those skill players often are, because playing their position requires so much physical development.

So incoming OL prospects are often red-shirted their first years regardless of talent level, and often don't start competing for the depth chart until their 3rd years in the program, as red-shirt sophomores. By then they've had 3 years to develop in the weight room, learn fundamentals and improve their foot-speed and balance.

So as it's played out over the years, those online evaluators can't really know that a 6-5 265 lb kid out of high school becomes a 6-5 320 lb monster by his RS sophomore year, and a top OL starter. For those skill players, that earns them a sold to high 4*, but that OL kid was probably a middling 3* because the evaluators thought he was too under-sized.

The OL prospects that are 4* or 5* are usually the physical freaks that already have the size, weight, and strength that Div. I OL are expected to have, and throw opposing high school DL around, like men among boys. But even many of those end up red-shirting their first year in college...

It can work both ways: we brought in "twin" brothers Brock and Clayton Stadnick. Brock was 4* and Clayton was 3*. Brock was taller and bigger, and looked more like a SEC-caliber OL. But it was Clayton who ended up earning starting time as a center before Brock ever did. Now it looks like both brothers just can't add more weight to their bodies: Brock is still no bigger than he was out of high school even though he has a 6-5 frame.

So I guess if a OL prospect has a large frame, athleticism and good foot-speed, and good natural strength, he could develop into a solid to great OL even without the 4* or higher ratings. But those evaluators have a hard time looking that far into the future for that position....
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Old 06-21-2015, 09:38 AM   #3
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Default Re: OL Recruiting Question

Five star OLs are pretty rare - can't remember the last one that we got, although Shell was rated a 5 star/Top 10 by one service. He was a 4 star/Top 100 player by a second service, while a third had him as a three star. Goes to show how hard it is to tell about O linemen - I think that Shell turned out to be 4 star based on what he has done to date.

The development time is what makes it so difficult. In addition to physical development and technique, blocking schemes are also difficult to learn, which is why the good students get put on the O line in high school. So usually O linemen don't start until they are RS Sophomores. If you are physically developed coming out of high school and a quick learner, you might get on the field as a RS Freshman - Donnell Stanley might be one of those guys. True Freshman - no matter how talented - start only ecause their team has dropped the ball in recruiting and there is no viable option.

We get some 4s - Stanley, Park, B. Stadnik, Shell, Bailey. Cann was a 4. But most of our guys are 3 stars that might take 2 -3 years to develop. Corey Robinson was a 3 star that bounced from O tackle to D tackle and back to O tackle before he settled in. One of our best O linemen was Rok Watkins, who was a 2 star. Bottom line is wait and see, and give the guys a couple of years befoe passing judgment.
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Old 06-21-2015, 12:37 PM   #4
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Default Re: OL Recruiting Question

Alabama gets all 5* and 4* offensive line recruits....they have the best line in the country every single year. That alone should tell you something. 5* left tackles are just as important to a team as a 5* QB.
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Old 06-21-2015, 12:59 PM   #5
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Default Re: OL Recruiting Question

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Originally Posted by BuCockyfan View Post
Alabama gets all 5* and 4* offensive line recruits....they have the best line in the country every single year. That alone should tell you something. 5* left tackles are just as important to a team as a 5* QB.
Bama does not get them all but the sec west as a whole gets most of them between Aubie, Bama, LSU, and ATM it seems.
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Old 06-21-2015, 01:02 PM   #6
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Default Re: OL Recruiting Question

So Elliott is bad at developing linemen? Our lines are always average to poor.
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Old 06-21-2015, 02:19 PM   #7
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Default Re: OL Recruiting Question

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Originally Posted by gamecockphan View Post
So Elliott is bad at developing linemen? Our lines are always average to poor.
I think the jury is still out on Eliott
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Old 06-21-2015, 03:19 PM   #8
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Default Re: OL Recruiting Question

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Originally Posted by henmania View Post
I think the jury is still out on Eliott
Yeah, but he's been here going on five years now. There are a lot of good things about him, but in the end he doesn't seem to put out as effective a unit as some other OL coaches who step in and increase the level of play right away, regardless of how many stars he had to work with.
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Old 06-21-2015, 08:35 PM   #9
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Default Re: OL Recruiting Question

The best offensive line coach we've had was Eric Wolford, but we couldn't keep him. He's an assistant offensive line coach for the 49ers now.

I think he and Brad Lawing were the last coaches hired away from SC.
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Old 06-21-2015, 08:41 PM   #10
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Default Re: OL Recruiting Question

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Originally Posted by Wisercock View Post
The best offensive line coach we've had was Eric Wolford, but we couldn't keep him. He's an assistant offensive line coach for the 49ers now.

I think he and Brad Lawing were the last coaches hired away from SC.
Eric Wolford left to become the head coach of Youngstown St.... Hardly hired away!
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Old 06-21-2015, 09:16 PM   #11
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Default Re: OL Recruiting Question

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Originally Posted by qcgamecock View Post
Eric Wolford left to become the head coach of Youngstown St.... Hardly hired away!
Yep....and I'm not sure that Wolford's one single year as our OL position coach is enough sample size to say he was our best. He did get USC's OL situation pointed in the right direction. IMO him following on the heels of John Hunt could have made him God-like in appearance just by that comparison...

And was Lawing truly "hired away" from USC? I understood that he basically had to "get out of town" due to some personal issues, regardless of who might have hired him. If those issues had never existed, would he still have been "hired away"?
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Old 06-22-2015, 11:55 AM   #12
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Default Re: OL Recruiting Question

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Originally Posted by ConwayGamecock View Post
Yep....and I'm not sure that Wolford's one single year as our OL position coach is enough sample size to say he was our best. He did get USC's OL situation pointed in the right direction. IMO him following on the heels of John Hunt could have made him God-like in appearance just by that comparison...

And was Lawing truly "hired away" from USC? I understood that he basically had to "get out of town" due to some personal issues, regardless of who might have hired him. If those issues had never existed, would he still have been "hired away"?
Yeah his statement was taterish IMO
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Old 06-28-2015, 07:10 PM   #13
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Default Re: OL Recruiting Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000grad View Post
Is a 3* lineman considered a coveted lineman? I really don't know. It is my understanding that 5* lineman are really rare, but I am not sure. It is obvious I don't know much about the rankings, etc.

Thanks
OL are the hardest players to rank/grade, so their star ranking can be very different than how they play when they get to school. Plus, they almost always RS......need to add strength and size.
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