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Old 07-21-2014, 11:58 PM   #1
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Default Green and Lammons

Pardon me if this is on another thread. Does anyone have an update on those 8 that may or may not qualify? Particularly Green and Lammons?
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Old 07-22-2014, 12:01 AM   #2
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Default Re: Green and Lammons

Last I read Green and Lammons look like they are coming in.
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Old 07-22-2014, 12:05 AM   #3
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Default Re: Green and Lammons

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Originally Posted by Gamecocks1137 View Post
Last I read Green and Lammons look like they are coming in.

Link?

I wouldn't mind reading it.
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Old 07-22-2014, 12:12 AM   #4
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Default Re: Green and Lammons

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Link?

I wouldn't mind reading it.
Pay site, can't link it. If it helps it was TBS
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Old 07-22-2014, 12:15 AM   #5
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Default Re: Green and Lammons

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Pay site, can't link it.
10-4
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Old 07-22-2014, 01:08 AM   #6
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Default Re: Green and Lammons

Won't be confirmed until next week but the hope is they'll get in.
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Old 07-22-2014, 07:53 AM   #7
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Default Re: Green and Lammons

They should know something later this week or early next week.
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Old 07-22-2014, 10:08 AM   #8
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Default Re: Green and Lammons

From what I hear, it's either they get the score and get in or somebody pretty much helped them cheat on the ACT. Is that correct?
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Old 07-22-2014, 10:40 AM   #9
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Default Re: Green and Lammons

Wouldn't get my hopes up yet.
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Old 07-22-2014, 10:45 AM   #10
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Default Re: Green and Lammons

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Originally Posted by MisterClowney View Post
From what I hear, it's either they get the score and get in or somebody pretty much helped them cheat on the ACT. Is that correct?
Pretty pathetic statement to make about a couple of our signees.
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Old 07-22-2014, 10:51 AM   #11
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Default Re: Green and Lammons

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Originally Posted by MisterClowney View Post
From what I hear, it's either they get the score and get in or somebody pretty much helped them cheat on the ACT. Is that correct?
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Old 07-22-2014, 11:16 AM   #12
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Default Re: Green and Lammons

Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterClowney View Post
From what I hear, it's either they get the score and get in or somebody pretty much helped them cheat on the ACT. Is that correct?
This would be a good time discuss Occam's Razor, or the theory of inductive inference. When faced with multiple choices, go with the one that has less assumptions inherently tied to it.

For example, a tree falls in the forest after a storm. Two people develop hypotheses:

Hypothesis 1: The storm winds blew the tree down.

Hypothesis 2: The storm was so bad a passing alien spacecraft lost control, ran into the tree knocking it down.

Looking at these two hypotheses, you can see that the second assumes much more than the first. 1) Aliens exist 2) They were in this specific area last night 3) Despite being able to go through space they can't handle a thunderstorm 4) Their craft was able to crash into a tree without any significant damage since no wreckage remains. And I could go on, but you get the idea.

So how does this apply to your post? Well let's go through the assumptions that would need to be true for these young men to cheat on the ACT.

1) Despite being taken in different locations, 2) in different states, 3) one being Georgia and one being Florida, neither of which is highly populated by USC fans compared to other regional fanbases, 4) proctored by different individuals who would have also needed to be fans or paid off to allow/facilitate the cheating, 5) most likely in the presence of several other people taking the ACT's, none of which actually said anything, all of the young men cheated. Furthermore, 6) whoever proctored these multiple exams risks losing all credentials for their actions risking severe NCAA punishment for the school.

Compare that with the idea that they took an ACT prep course and raised their score by actually applying what they learned.

Which would Occam's Razor tell you to choose?
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Old 07-22-2014, 11:48 AM   #13
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Default Re: Green and Lammons

I am a teacher and have given the SAT and ACT multiple times. From what I have observed cheating on these test can be done. The teachers that proctor these exams are asked to help by the schools, and they are paid by whoever is giving the test. I have seen proctors come in hung over, half asleep, and not pay any attention during testing. The biggest thing that would happen to most teachers is they would not asked to come back and work extra, but their career as a teacher should remain the same.

There are also many kids who are masters at cheating. It can easily be pulled off. It does not take an alien conspiracy theory to do it. I am not implying that our recruits did any of this, but it is possible for any student to cheat.
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Old 07-22-2014, 12:17 PM   #14
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Default Re: Green and Lammons

Quote:
Originally Posted by darthtripous View Post
I am a teacher and have given the SAT and ACT multiple times. From what I have observed cheating on these test can be done. The teachers that proctor these exams are asked to help by the schools, and they are paid by whoever is giving the test. I have seen proctors come in hung over, half asleep, and not pay any attention during testing. The biggest thing that would happen to most teachers is they would not asked to come back and work extra, but their career as a teacher should remain the same.

There are also many kids who are masters at cheating. It can easily be pulled off. It does not take an alien conspiracy theory to do it. I am not implying that our recruits did any of this, but it is possible for any student to cheat.
The point I was making is that multiple students are at question here, not just one. That is yet another assumption of Occam's Razor. Can one student cheat? Sure. Can multiple students cheat in a coordinated effort? It's possible, but far from probable. In each case you would have to start assuming the proctor is, as you say, drunk/hungover/on the take and that no other students around (assuming it was a normal ACT scenario) said anything.

I never said it would take an alien conspiracy, just using an example to point out that while anything is possible, anything is not probable. What is the most probable explanation, which one takes the least assumptions to get to? The answer is pretty obvious to me. I am not eliminating options, just pointing out that some explanations require fairly broad assumptions, most of which are worst case scenario. When people start choosing to go with worst case scenario choices even when much more plausible, reasonable explanations exist that don't require us to call into account the character of the young men who have chosen to play here I just wonder why.
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Old 07-22-2014, 12:37 PM   #15
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Default Re: Green and Lammons

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Originally Posted by pitchcock View Post
Pretty pathetic statement to make about a couple of our signees.
The difference in a statement and a question confuses you, I see.
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Old 07-22-2014, 12:41 PM   #16
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Default Re: Green and Lammons

Quote:
Originally Posted by trapper82 View Post
This would be a good time discuss Occam's Razor, or the theory of inductive inference. When faced with multiple choices, go with the one that has less assumptions inherently tied to it.

For example, a tree falls in the forest after a storm. Two people develop hypotheses:

Hypothesis 1: The storm winds blew the tree down.

Hypothesis 2: The storm was so bad a passing alien spacecraft lost control, ran into the tree knocking it down.

Looking at these two hypotheses, you can see that the second assumes much more than the first. 1) Aliens exist 2) They were in this specific area last night 3) Despite being able to go through space they can't handle a thunderstorm 4) Their craft was able to crash into a tree without any significant damage since no wreckage remains. And I could go on, but you get the idea.

So how does this apply to your post? Well let's go through the assumptions that would need to be true for these young men to cheat on the ACT.

1) Despite being taken in different locations, 2) in different states, 3) one being Georgia and one being Florida, neither of which is highly populated by USC fans compared to other regional fanbases, 4) proctored by different individuals who would have also needed to be fans or paid off to allow/facilitate the cheating, 5) most likely in the presence of several other people taking the ACT's, none of which actually said anything, all of the young men cheated. Furthermore, 6) whoever proctored these multiple exams risks losing all credentials for their actions risking severe NCAA punishment for the school.

Compare that with the idea that they took an ACT prep course and raised their score by actually applying what they learned.

Which would Occam's Razor tell you to choose?
Now this is what I'm talking about. Thank you. I would like to believe that these guys worked hard and prepped for the ACT and took it again and did so well that the improvement in scores rocked the NCAA's world. And now they're being forced to take it again.
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Old 07-22-2014, 12:49 PM   #17
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Default Re: Green and Lammons

Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterClowney View Post
From what I hear, it's either they get the score and get in or somebody pretty much helped them cheat on the ACT. Is that correct?

Speaking of 'jumping to conclusions': I believe what the poster quoted is saying is that statement was insinuated by the NCAA and they were being forced to retake it...Its not HIS statement, though could have been expanded upon to avoid confusion amongst some....relax

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Old 07-22-2014, 12:52 PM   #18
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Default Re: Green and Lammons

The NCAA sees smoke so they begin to look for fire. I understand it needs doing and I think in the end it will allow these youn men into school.

That assumes the NCAA is competent. Lol
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Old 07-22-2014, 12:56 PM   #19
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Default Re: Green and Lammons

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueGarnet View Post
Speaking of 'jumping to conclusions': I believe what the poster quoted is saying is that statement was insinuated by the NCAA and they were being forced to retake it...Its not HIS statement, though could have been expanded upon to avoid confusion amongst some....relax

...I understood ya
Thanks brotha.
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Old 07-22-2014, 01:14 PM   #20
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Default Re: Green and Lammons

Quote:
Originally Posted by trapper82 View Post
The point I was making is that multiple students are at question here, not just one. That is yet another assumption of Occam's Razor. Can one student cheat? Sure. Can multiple students cheat in a coordinated effort? It's possible, but far from probable. In each case you would have to start assuming the proctor is, as you say, drunk/hungover/on the take and that no other students around (assuming it was a normal ACT scenario) said anything.

I never said it would take an alien conspiracy, just using an example to point out that while anything is possible, anything is not probable. What is the most probable explanation, which one takes the least assumptions to get to? The answer is pretty obvious to me. I am not eliminating options, just pointing out that some explanations require fairly broad assumptions, most of which are worst case scenario. When people start choosing to go with worst case scenario choices even when much more plausible, reasonable explanations exist that don't require us to call into account the character of the young men who have chosen to play here I just wonder why.



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