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Old 11-06-2014, 09:12 PM   #1
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Default Frank Martin Recruiting

I know a lot of people are upset about the recruiting of the basketball program, but is it really justified? Let's take a look at Frank Martin's recruiting at KSU. All information from Rivals.

2007 (Bob Huggins pretty much had this class in place for Martin)
Michael Beasley 5*
Bill Walker 5*
Dominique Sutton 4*
Ron Anderson 3*
Fred Brown 3*
Andre Gilbert 3*
Jacob Pullen 3*
Jamar Samuels 3*

2008
Buchi Awagi 3*
Abdul Herrera 2*

2009
Jordan Henriquez 3*
Martavious Irving 3*
Wally Judge 5*
Rodney McGruder 4*
Nick Russell 3*

2010
Freddy Asprilla 3*
Juevol Myles unranked
Shane Southwell 3*
Will Spradling 3*
Nino Williams 4*

2011
Adrian Diaz 3*
Thomas Gipson 3*
Jeremy Jones 3*
Omari Lawrence 3*
Angel Rodriguez 3*
James Watson unranked

As you can see Frank Martin's 5 recruiting classes consisted of:

3 - 5* recruits
3 - 4* recruits
17 - 3* recruits
1 - 2* recruit
and 2 - unranked (Juco's I believe)

Let's compare that with what he's done here at SC with what was the laughing stock of the SEC and practically college basketball:

2012
Michael Carerra - unranked (All-SEC freshman)
Laimonas Chatkevicius - 3*
Mindaugas Kacinas - 3*

2013
Sindarius Thornwell - 4*
Demetrius Henry - 4*
Justin McKie - 3*
Duane Notice - 3*
Desmond Ringer - 3*
Jaylen Shaw - 3*
Reggie Theus Jr - 2*

2014
Marcus Stroman - 4*
Temarcus Blanton - 3*
Shamiek Sheppard - 3*
James Thompson - 3*

2015
Chris Silva - 3*

So in nearly 4 recruiting classes Martin has:

3 - 4* recruits
10 - 3* recruits
1 - 2* recruit
1 - unranked recruit

If he misses on Dozier, it's not any fault of his. He has made Dozier the priority from day 1. It doesn't help that he took on a job that is a graveyard for coaches, and a lot of fans have unrealistic expectations. Sure he has a temper, but it's not like Coach K is some kind of angel. Frank Martin's coaching style isn't for everyone, but the guys that come in and are willing to learn, they play great team basketball. They play great defense. They give it everything they've got, and once they develop and buy in - they are winners. Getting down on Martin does not help our program, and it just continues a gigantic buzz of negativity that has already engulfed the program. Get off the guys back, because while recruiting has never really been Martin's strong point like Coach K or Coach Cal, player development and winning certainly has. If Dozier, Mack, Woods, Felton or any other guy can't see it right now, they sure as hell will by the end of next season!
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Old 11-06-2014, 10:13 PM   #2
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Default Re: Frank Martin Recruiting

Quote:
Originally Posted by doubledribble View Post
I know a lot of people are upset about the recruiting of the basketball program, but is it really justified? Let's take a look at Frank Martin's recruiting at KSU. All information from Rivals.

2007 (Bob Huggins pretty much had this class in place for Martin)
Michael Beasley 5*
Bill Walker 5*
Dominique Sutton 4*
Ron Anderson 3*
Fred Brown 3*
Andre Gilbert 3*
Jacob Pullen 3*
Jamar Samuels 3*

2008
Buchi Awagi 3*
Abdul Herrera 2*

2009
Jordan Henriquez 3*
Martavious Irving 3*
Wally Judge 5*
Rodney McGruder 4*
Nick Russell 3*

2010
Freddy Asprilla 3*
Juevol Myles unranked
Shane Southwell 3*
Will Spradling 3*
Nino Williams 4*

2011
Adrian Diaz 3*
Thomas Gipson 3*
Jeremy Jones 3*
Omari Lawrence 3*
Angel Rodriguez 3*
James Watson unranked

As you can see Frank Martin's 5 recruiting classes consisted of:

3 - 5* recruits
3 - 4* recruits
17 - 3* recruits
1 - 2* recruit
and 2 - unranked (Juco's I believe)

Let's compare that with what he's done here at SC with what was the laughing stock of the SEC and practically college basketball:

2012
Michael Carerra - unranked (All-SEC freshman)
Laimonas Chatkevicius - 3*
Mindaugas Kacinas - 3*

2013
Sindarius Thornwell - 4*
Demetrius Henry - 4*
Justin McKie - 3*
Duane Notice - 3*
Desmond Ringer - 3*
Jaylen Shaw - 3*
Reggie Theus Jr - 2*

2014
Marcus Stroman - 4*
Temarcus Blanton - 3*
Shamiek Sheppard - 3*
James Thompson - 3*

2015
Chris Silva - 3*

So in nearly 4 recruiting classes Martin has:

3 - 4* recruits
10 - 3* recruits
1 - 2* recruit
1 - unranked recruit

If he misses on Dozier, it's not any fault of his. He has made Dozier the priority from day 1. It doesn't help that he took on a job that is a graveyard for coaches, and a lot of fans have unrealistic expectations. Sure he has a temper, but it's not like Coach K is some kind of angel. Frank Martin's coaching style isn't for everyone, but the guys that come in and are willing to learn, they play great team basketball. They play great defense. They give it everything they've got, and once they develop and buy in - they are winners. Getting down on Martin does not help our program, and it just continues a gigantic buzz of negativity that has already engulfed the program. Get off the guys back, because while recruiting has never really been Martin's strong point like Coach K or Coach Cal, player development and winning certainly has. If Dozier, Mack, Woods, Felton or any other guy can't see it right now, they sure as hell will by the end of next season!
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Old 11-06-2014, 10:50 PM   #3
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Default Re: Frank Martin Recruiting

Frank will get the job done, but we know it will take a while. If Sindarius returns for his junior year then we will only lose 1 player off this year's team. Also, with the injuries to 2 freshmen, we already will have 2 freshmen next season.
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Old 11-06-2014, 11:47 PM   #4
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Default Re: Frank Martin Recruiting

All I know is, whether it was with his guys or not, the guy took K State to 4 NCAA tourny's in 5 years there. All I want to see this year is at least .500. If we can get that with the lack of size we have down low, it will be a huge accomplishment. Especially when you factor in our non-conference schedule being not so easy.
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Old 11-07-2014, 01:15 AM   #5
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Default Re: Frank Martin Recruiting

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Originally Posted by GarnetSwarm1990 View Post
All I know is, whether it was with his guys or not, the guy took K State to 4 NCAA tourny's in 5 years there. All I want to see this year is at least .500. If we can get that with the lack of size we have down low, it will be a huge accomplishment. Especially when you factor in our non-conference schedule being not so easy.
My point is that Frank Martin took over a program that was basically set up for him with 2 5* and 1 4* recruit. He got the makings of a great team right off the bat. He did not have that luxury here. Regardless of the poor state of our program, he has still managed to recruit at the same or nearly the same level he was at KSU. It takes time to develop guys. He basically cleaned house the first 2 seasons. This is really the first season he will have a group of guys that have a full year under their belt and know understand how things are done. I expect to see a big change this year. I don't know how much that will show in the wins and losses column because the schedule isn't easy, and I don't think that's a fair way to judge the team at this point. I do expect to see some big improvements though in terms of competitiveness.
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Old 11-07-2014, 10:26 AM   #6
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Default Re: Frank Martin Recruiting

Quote:
Originally Posted by GarnetSwarm1990 View Post
All I know is, whether it was with his guys or not, the guy took K State to 4 NCAA tourny's in 5 years there. All I want to see this year is at least .500. If we can get that with the lack of size we have down low, it will be a huge accomplishment. Especially when you factor in our non-conference schedule being not so easy.
...Don't let the size of our guys fool you....Check out the rebounding and scoring stats for the team over all....You will be very surprised to see we were very good in several rebounding catagories...Scoring wise wasn't bad either....We made a lot more progress last year than I realized until I saw they team stats from last year....And yes...we need to finish at least .500 this year ...
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Old 11-07-2014, 10:47 AM   #7
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Default Re: Frank Martin Recruiting

Quote:
Originally Posted by doubledribble View Post
My point is that Frank Martin took over a program that was basically set up for him with 2 5* and 1 4* recruit. He got the makings of a great team right off the bat. He did not have that luxury here. Regardless of the poor state of our program, he has still managed to recruit at the same or nearly the same level he was at KSU. It takes time to develop guys. He basically cleaned house the first 2 seasons. This is really the first season he will have a group of guys that have a full year under their belt and know understand how things are done. I expect to see a big change this year. I don't know how much that will show in the wins and losses column because the schedule isn't easy, and I don't think that's a fair way to judge the team at this point. I do expect to see some big improvements though in terms of competitiveness.

And that is the problem, Martin has never built a program, which was needed here. He was handed a program and told to run with it.
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Old 11-07-2014, 11:49 AM   #8
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Default Re: Frank Martin Recruiting

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Originally Posted by SCohioBoy View Post
And that is the problem, Martin has never built a program, which was needed here. He was handed a program and told to run with it.
This isn't a problem. It's just not going to be instant gratification like our fans want. Frank sustained success with primarily 3* recruits. He knows how to win and understands who fits his system. It's not his fault that some of our fans are delusional and thinks that any coach we bring in here should be out-recruiting Duke, UNC, Kentucky, Florida, Georgia, Georgia Tech, Louisville, and UConn. People that can't see the progress we've made in two years, aren't looking.
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Old 11-07-2014, 11:52 AM   #9
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Default Re: Frank Martin Recruiting

Quote:
Originally Posted by doubledribble View Post
This isn't a problem. It's just not going to be instant gratification like our fans want. Frank sustained success with primarily 3* recruits. He knows how to win and understands who fits his system. It's not his fault that some of our fans are delusional and thinks that any coach we bring in here should be out-recruiting Duke, UNC, Kentucky, Florida, Georgia, Georgia Tech, Louisville, and UConn. People that can't see the progress we've made in two years, aren't looking.

Sorry but it is a problem. I am not asking him to out recruit the big boys out the gate. Like YOU said he was handed tools to succeed and did. When he has had to go at it on his own, he has struggled. Fair or not a lot of the criticism here he has brought on himself.
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Old 11-07-2014, 12:39 PM   #10
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Default Re: Frank Martin Recruiting

Take the women's program for example. Coach Staley had to recruit outside of SC and slowly built a program that the elite instate players would want to go to. Last year, we were a top 4 national seed and had to go to the wire to get Aja Wilson. Both coaches are very demanding, in your face coaches but they each genuinely care for and love their players. Coach K is the same way. You don't want women and small children near his huddle during a game. Some kids take it personally and the successful ones take it constructively. The players now have a better idea of Martin's style and expectations and I think that we will see a completely different team this year. I think that the improvement will be enough that the future Doziers, Macks & Woods will be wanting to be a part of this program.
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Old 11-07-2014, 12:41 PM   #11
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Default Re: Frank Martin Recruiting

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Originally Posted by SCohioBoy View Post
Sorry but it is a problem. I am not asking him to out recruit the big boys out the gate. Like YOU said he was handed tools to succeed and did. When he has had to go at it on his own, he has struggled. Fair or not a lot of the criticism here he has brought on himself.
It's not a problem. Frank Martin is a well-established, well-respected coach. I'm sorry you don't see that, but my point was not that he had some easy time recruiting at KSU. He took 3* recruits and sustained success with them. My point was simply that he's going to be doing the same thing here. I don't care if you disagree or not. Frank is not the same hire as a Horn, and it's insulting to think that you think he's not capable of sustaining success here just because he wasn't handed an amazing first class.
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Old 11-07-2014, 12:42 PM   #12
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Default Re: Frank Martin Recruiting

Quote:
Originally Posted by rrsandersjr View Post
Take the women's program for example. Coach Staley had to recruit outside of SC and slowly built a program that the elite instate players would want to go to. Last year, we were a top 4 national seed and had to go to the wire to get Aja Wilson. Both coaches are very demanding, in your face coaches but they each genuinely care for and love their players. Coach K is the same way. You don't want women and small children near his huddle during a game. Some kids take it personally and the successful ones take it constructively. The players now have a better idea of Martin's style and expectations and I think that we will see a completely different team this year. I think that the improvement will be enough that the future Doziers, Macks & Woods will be wanting to be a part of this program.
Completely agree.
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Old 11-07-2014, 01:11 PM   #13
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Default Re: Frank Martin Recruiting

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Originally Posted by doubledribble View Post
It's not a problem. Frank Martin is a well-established, well-respected coach. I'm sorry you don't see that, but my point was not that he had some easy time recruiting at KSU. He took 3* recruits and sustained success with them. My point was simply that he's going to be doing the same thing here. I don't care if you disagree or not. Frank is not the same hire as a Horn, and it's insulting to think that you think he's not capable of sustaining success here just because he wasn't handed an amazing first class.
I don't see him being successful here for many reasons. You can like him and defend him all you want, but people need to face realitiy that if it were not for Bob Huggins handing him a solid class and a good start at K State, Frank would still be an assistant somewhere. He has never built a program, or had to instill a culture in a program. To call him well established is a stretch. He had one other stop for a few years.

Be insulted all you want, but the fact is at this point, his hiring is not getting it done on the court and at times been an embaressment to the university. People can say whatever to that, but his actions brought negative light here, and don't think it is used against us in recruiting.
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Old 11-07-2014, 01:37 PM   #14
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Default Re: Frank Martin Recruiting

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Originally Posted by SCohioBoy View Post
I don't see him being successful here for many reasons. You can like him and defend him all you want, but people need to face realitiy that if it were not for Bob Huggins handing him a solid class and a good start at K State, Frank would still be an assistant somewhere. He has never built a program, or had to instill a culture in a program. To call him well established is a stretch. He had one other stop for a few years.

Be insulted all you want, but the fact is at this point, his hiring is not getting it done on the court and at times been an embaressment to the university. People can say whatever to that, but his actions brought negative light here, and don't think it is used against us in recruiting.
This is complete BS... Yes... BS.

Frank is not an established coach? Sure he'd only been a head coach for 5 years at KSU, but he made the NCAA tourney 4 out of 5 years with 1 elite 8 appearance. That's establishing yourself. He didn't do it with only Huggins recruits. He took his own recruits to NCAA appearances. He didn't instill culture? What the hell are you talking about? What culture did he not instill there? He's doing the same thing here that he did there culture-wise.

Just because you don't like Frank Martin's actions doesn't mean he's not a coach that can change things here. Coach K has acted the same way for many years at Duke, but I don't see you saying Coach K is a bad coach. I'm not insulted by you. You have no idea what you're talking about. I'm saying it's insulting to have someone give such an uninformed opinion about a coach, and I'm sure you'd never tell Frank Martin he's not a good coach, not well-liked, or not suited to turn things around here.

You gave him 2 years to turn it around... that is just plain ridiculous!
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Old 11-07-2014, 01:42 PM   #15
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Default Re: Frank Martin Recruiting

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This is complete BS... Yes... BS.

Frank is not an established coach? Sure he'd only been a head coach for 5 years at KSU, but he made the NCAA tourney 4 out of 5 years with 1 elite 8 appearance. That's establishing yourself. He didn't do it with only Huggins recruits. He took his own recruits to NCAA appearances. He didn't instill culture? What the hell are you talking about? What culture did he not instill there? He's doing the same thing here that he did there culture-wise.

Just because you don't like Frank Martin's actions doesn't mean he's not a coach that can change things here. Coach K has acted the same way for many years at Duke, but I don't see you saying Coach K is a bad coach. I'm not insulted by you. You have no idea what you're talking about. I'm saying it's insulting to have someone give such an uninformed opinion about a coach, and I'm sure you'd never tell Frank Martin he's not a good coach, not well-liked, or not suited to turn things around here.

You gave him 2 years to turn it around... that is just plain ridiculous!
Gotta spread rep around, but this post was rep-worthy.
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Old 11-07-2014, 01:45 PM   #16
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Default Re: Frank Martin Recruiting

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Originally Posted by SCohioBoy View Post
I don't see him being successful here for many reasons. You can like him and defend him all you want, but people need to face realitiy that if it were not for Bob Huggins handing him a solid class and a good start at K State, Frank would still be an assistant somewhere. He has never built a program, or had to instill a culture in a program. To call him well established is a stretch. He had one other stop for a few years.

Be insulted all you want, but the fact is at this point, his hiring is not getting it done on the court and at times been an embaressment to the university. People can say whatever to that, but his actions brought negative light here, and don't think it is used against us in recruiting.
Unbelievable what is spewing from your keyboard.

Frank M. is the Best thing that's happened to our bball program since the other Frank and Eddie Fogler.
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Old 11-07-2014, 01:47 PM   #17
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Default Re: Frank Martin Recruiting

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Originally Posted by doubledribble View Post
This is complete BS... Yes... BS.

Frank is not an established coach? Sure he'd only been a head coach for 5 years at KSU, but he made the NCAA tourney 4 out of 5 years with 1 elite 8 appearance. That's establishing yourself. He didn't do it with only Huggins recruits. He took his own recruits to NCAA appearances. He didn't instill culture? What the hell are you talking about? What culture did he not instill there? He's doing the same thing here that he did there culture-wise.

Just because you don't like Frank Martin's actions doesn't mean he's not a coach that can change things here. Coach K has acted the same way for many years at Duke, but I don't see you saying Coach K is a bad coach. I'm not insulted by you. You have no idea what you're talking about. I'm saying it's insulting to have someone give such an uninformed opinion about a coach, and I'm sure you'd never tell Frank Martin he's not a good coach, not well-liked, or not suited to turn things around here.

You gave him 2 years to turn it around... that is just plain ridiculous!
If I saw Frank, I would tell him that, I highly doubt he would care.

You need to be honest with yourself, if Huggins never coached at K State, yes I know it was only a year, and Frank Martin took over do you honestly think he would have done anything remotely close to getting into the NCAAs. Huggins did more for Kstate in 1 year than Martin would have ever done. Martin was best know for a cheating scandel in HS before Huggins left. Again he has not had to build a program. And yes after two years, the improvement in record is lacking. The talent level from year 1 to year 2 has improved, but the record did not. I am not saying fire him today, but if once again the record shows no improvement, it maybe time to cut bait.

I love how people always try and compare Martin's actions to Coach Ks. The fact is Coach K is on a level Martin wishes he could sniff.

I have said it many times I never liked the hire, I was also not in the hire Marshall group, I am in the hire the best person period group. People want to praise Martin for a lot of things he "did at K State" but I think people need to really look to see how those things happened.

Bottom line is I hope he proves me wrong, I want nothing but the best for my Alma Mater.
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Old 11-07-2014, 01:48 PM   #18
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Default Re: Frank Martin Recruiting

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Originally Posted by Travelin View Post
Unbelievable what is spewing from your keyboard.

Frank M. is the Best thing that's happened to our bball program since the other Frank and Eddie Fogler.

Yes back to back losing season is a great thing to happen! At this point Dave Odem has done more for the program...
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Old 11-07-2014, 02:11 PM   #19
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Default Re: Frank Martin Recruiting

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Originally Posted by SCohioBoy View Post
Yes back to back losing season is a great thing to happen! At this point Dave Odem has done more for the program...
Dave Odom also took over for Eddie Fogler.

Frank Martin took over for Darrin Horn.

One of these sentences is not like the other.
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Old 11-07-2014, 02:20 PM   #20
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Default Re: Frank Martin Recruiting

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Originally Posted by davidmc467 View Post
Dave Odom also took over for Eddie Fogler.

Frank Martin took over for Darrin Horn.

One of these sentences is not like the other.

Fogler's teams at the end were sturggling to get to 500 his last 3 years. Both Odom and Martin took over programs heading in the wrong direction.
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